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Curly Nikki

Do You Prefer ‘Defined’ Natural Hair?

By January 27th, 2021171 Comments

Skeeta writes:

Dear Curly Nikki community,

I recently posted an inspiration picture on my blog, where the girl was wearing a blowout with no definition. A commenter noted that in her opinion, she didn’t like it because it had no definition and looked dry. This got me to thinking about the natural hair community in general and what we feel is “acceptable” natural hair. I personally believe that just because our hair may “look dry” to someone else, definitely doesn’t mean that it is; i.e shine does not equal moisturized (you all know the oiled down dry hair)!
  • Do you feel that your hair must have some type of definition to be “styled”?
  • Does your hair have to have shine for it to look presentable, even if it’s healthy?
  • Does the majority of the natural hair community prefer a polished, mainstream acceptable curly look versus a kinkier, undefined, combed/brushed out style?

171 Comments

  • DeeDee says:

    i think it looks ok n normal. love the volume!
    however, i'm noticing some comments here clearly reflect the stereotypic white definition of beauty: controlled neatly styled hair.

    come on ppl!!

    we dont have that kinda hair, nor will we ever have it. sure ppl will always want what they dont have, but at some point we must stop and look at our selves and realize who we really are n what we look like. by putting excessive time on styling we keep telling our children n the rest of the world that our natural hair aint good enough.

  • naturallyk says:

    I don't care if natural hair is defined or not. I like seeing it in all its glory. I think the look the model has is cute!

  • Anonymous says:

    Natural Nazis UNITE!

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anonymous 10:29

    What I can't believe is commenters bashing other commenters for expressing how they feel.

    Just because they didn't answer the questions above to there liking ,or commented on the models hair in a negative way, they instantly get branded as having a Permie vs Natural mentality, or have the Hair type Hierarchy mentality. It's ridiculous!!

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 10:29

    People can say whatever they want, there entitled to their own opinions. If you don't like it oh well, that's your problem now isn't it!!!

  • Anonymous says:

    Wowww, I can't get over how commenters are really yelling "shut up" in a post that was meant to answer a question and give varying opinions. I am not judging anyone on whether or not they like the model's hair above. I think eveyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. But telling others to shut up or being disrespectful is just real low…

  • Perkisha says:

    I admit that I do tend to like more defined styles with sheen. I was a bit more conservative in my hairstyling relaxed as well. But my boyfriend and many of my friends love my hair when it is big and undefined. I love the more undefined, wilder looks on other naturals I've seen. But on me, I have been trying to let my hair be bigger and less defined on the weekends, as I feel better wearing more conservative looks for work. But as I review these comments and the "natural rules," it has made me really try to explore the reasons behind by preference. Hmmm…

  • Anonymous says:

    some of you are overlooking the big picture smh. its not about liking her hair or not. most of the people were replying to the people stating that undefined hair is unacceptable NOT just this person's hair. some even went as far to say she needs to throw some twist or braids in there so it can be defined and therefore acceptable. if you dont like her hair FINE who gives a crap but dont say just because someone doesn't have curls,a defined twist or braid-out then its unacceptable. thats a big SLAP in the face to the many naturals who hair doesn't shine or have any type of definition if u like the models hair FINE, if you dont like it thats FINE too but dont say ALL naturals with undefined hair are unacceptable. please read all the comments before you post cause its clear many of you are just jumping in the "debate" without knowing what all the comments said.

  • BlameCanada says:

    If I don't like the models hair, does that make me wrong and does that mean I have a bad hair/good hair mentality?

  • Anonymous says:

    I haven't seen a post talking about good hair vs. bad hair, all I see is posts stating whether they like the pic of that woman's hair/style or not. The insecure women are turning it into a good hair /bad hair mentality.I f people want to say they think it looks dry, a hot mess, they don't like the cut, the style, then that's what it is. This is why men complain that most women over analyze things, the proof is on this post,SHEEEEESSSHHH!

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 8:07

    LOL!! SMDH!!! Do you here yourself? qouting from your statement "Some of these posters do have a good hair/bad hair mentality. If you really didn't thinks so then you wouldn't have need to be defensive and telling people to shut up"
    ———————————————–

    Hello!!! did you not read my post!! The people I'm telling to shut up are YOU and the rest who are bashing us because we don't like the way that models hair looks!!! If you honestly think that chicks hair is moisturized then your dumb. Her hair is a hot dry ashy looking mess, the cut is disgusting. If you don't agree that's your problem. You can wear your hair like that if you want to. Good luck combing it out!!! Peace ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Anonymous says:

    Some of these posters do have a good hair/bad hair mentality. If you really didn't thinks so then you wouldn't have need to be defensive and telling people to shut up. I don't like the models hair personally, but I'm not judging dryness and appropriateness either. Have you touched her hair? If there answer is no, then …

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 7:38 ^^^

    Exactly, You like it or you don't. Period!

  • Anonymous says:

    Whatever, I don't like the way her hair looks in that skeetalynn pic, and if I interviewed her for a job and she was the best qualified for it, I would hire her, but I personally could still say to myself that I don't like the way her hair looks. Its just like someone saying they don't like a particular straight hairstyle or straight hair type. Oh well!

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 5:19^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 5:07

    Who said anything about one hair type being superior than the other. And when I said everyone needs to shut up, I'm talking about the majority of the people including yourself who are getting all defensive just because we stated we didn't like how the models hair in the picture look, and how we like a more defined look rather than undefined.And maybe I should correct myself, when I said her hair is not attractive. I did not mean her texture, I meant, the dry appearance and the horrendous cut.

    The point of the discussion is to discuss, but some of you took it upon yourselves to start getting all hot over a persons preference, twisting and turning some peoples opinions to make it seem like they have a good hair/bad hair mentality.

  • Anonymous says:

    Right on anon 7:17, I get sick of people and these stupid labels, because it starts turning into a gang, and I feel like I'm in high school again with all the different cliques, naturals, permies, undefined, defined, blah, blah, blah! How about if you like something,you just like it, and if you don't like, then you don't like it. Stop with the labels!

  • Anonymous says:

    Hair is apart of out appearance,so it can be manipulated and changed to whatever you like. I don't even like the term naturals because it is just another "label" and all labels do is separate. Labels are used to make people comfortable, and if you can't categorize something or put it in a box then people get uncomfortable. People always love to feel apart of a group. How about, I am just another woman with curly hair and I will do my hair the way I please and I will always know that everyone doesn't have to like it, and that's fine, it doesn't bother me and it's nothing to fight for. Stop having so much pride in hair, its just hair.

  • Alex says:

    This shouldn't be a discussion, this should be a response to the question posted, which only requires an individual to state their opinion and be done with it. Other people have taken it upon themselves to go in different directions and get offensive. If I don't like someones hair, then I just don't like it, so what. Just like I don't like how everyone dresses. But no one has a right to bash someone else for what they like and what they don't like. What world do you live in where everyone likes the same things?

  • Anonymous says:

    Anonymous 4:50 you sound like the one that's hot. I think we do have a way to go when a hair texture is not seen as equally potentially lovely as another, but if that doesn't apply to you then why are you telling everybody to shut up? I thought the point of a discussion was to discuss. Point taken everybody doesn't like everything, but you made the statement "a lot of people hair is not attractive." Maybe it's not attractive to YOU and that's cool, but be clear. We all have different standards- we can respect differences without holding one superior and the other inferior. That's all.

  • Anonymous says:

    Most of you ladies sound really unhappy and bitter. Thankfully, you're not like the naturals I run into on the street and on most other blogs and websites.

    Did you guys forget this is an actual PERSON you're critiquing and dissing?? Some of u were harsh and downright mean!!!

  • Anonymous says:

    Everybody needs to shut up, talking all this mess about "We got Along way to go", " It's clear nothing's changed" " Stop using the word Preference for your own Prejudice"

    Do you expect everyone to like your hair, whether that person is natural, permed, or has a different hair type? NO!!!!! A lot of people hair is not attractive. You can agree or not. Plus why should it bother you this hard. Just because this is a natural hair board doesn't mean we all share the same views. Why can't everyone accept each others opinion on this topic. People getting all hot over nothing.

  • Anonymous says:

    Uhm Anon 3:48 You obviously are directing your last sentence to your self since your Anon 3:48!!

  • Anonymous says:

    How did we get into the issue of whether or not the hairstyle was appropriate for work? The issue was dryness and shine. I'm pretty sure no one, including the girl in the photo would wear their hair like that for work. That wasn't the intent of the post. The post wasn't titled work appropriate hairstyles. I'm pretty sure the woman in the picture would either slick her hair back or bun it for work just like all of you. So ya'll saying I would never wear my hair like that for work are just being distracted from the original intent of the post. Stop using that as a cop out for your prejudice. The bottom line is some people's hair does NOT shine. And some people's hair LOOKS dry even when it's not. So I guess their hair will never look good to you. Well that's fine. But it's clear now that nothing's changed.

  • Anonymous says:

    The idea that you have to choose between hungry children and being yourself is a ridiculous stretch and shows how limited some people's ideas about society and success are.
    If someone didn't hire your aunt because she was bald and had cancer is that ok? Is that just the way the world works and you get over it. That's discrimination and there are laws against that….but then there wouldn't be if people just threw up their hands and said " oh well such is the way of the world." If you can't stand for something, you will fall for anything. I'm going to do me nappy/curly/coily/defined/undefined hair and all.
    I feed my family and I feed myself no compromise on my being me. Compromise on salary, location, or a position to stay employed- sure! I have and may have to in the future. But on me? No maam.

    Also anon 3:48 you are anon, I'm anon, as well as other comments so your argument that it's all the same posters on the forum is pretty spurious.

  • Anonymous says:

    That girls hair in the picture is not appealing.
    Before anyone of you naturals who belong to the (WE Are Natural, So We Must Accept And Applaud Every Natural Jacked Up Mane) jump down my throat, let me state MY OPINION.

    Some of you stated y'all liked her hair, but would you rock it. Probably not. There's even a comment stating that some of us are using this "Preference" as a smokescreen to hide our prejudices. Bull!!!

    If you go into the forum right now you will see threads asking people what they use to smooth their edges, what kind of product do you use to define your curls, slick your hair back, doing twist and curls, braid and curls, and what not.

    And you know what the same naturals who are getting riled up because people stated their opinion honestly about not liking that girls hair, and liking a more defined look, is the same ones who frequent those same hair threads I just mentioned.

  • Anonymous says:

    I hear that anon 3:05, a lot of jobs are worth it now with the economy and having a family to take care of. I rather advocate fighting for hungry children or people at war, than whether someone prefers my kinky hair or not, so what, let them not like it, doesn't change my life or my attitude toward myself.

  • Anonymous says:

    I'm a mom first before anything else, and if I need to throw my hair back for a job that holds a certain culture and some prejudices to keep a roof over me and my child's head and food on the table,then damn it, whats the problem?!I am the same woman with my hair out or done more conservative, or bald, and I choose my battles. I'm not trying to fight something that won't ever change, especially over some dang hair. When my aunt was in chemo she had no hair and was beautiful, so all this hair pride crap is garbage, and getting offended, that being said, hair doesn't define a person or race and it has nothing to do with being proud or not.Its not that deep when you have more important priorities.

  • Anonymous says:

    Again Anon 2:17 those jobs and those men weren't worth getting. Who are we if we do not have the courage to embrace those that embrace us? Society and prejudice NEVER change as long as people are willing to uphold and exalt the status quo. Missed an opportunity- perhaps. But if you're stuck thinking X is the only opportunity and Y the only way to do it then no wonder one's life lacks opportunities. You already closed the door.

    Sad thing is of the woman in the pic in question walked into a room full of naturals and permies would the naturals be teeth sucking harder than the permies? Probably.

  • Anonymous says:

    I've seen hair keep people unemployed,and from getting a man that they are interested in; it is prejudice and I was disgusted and still am.But it does,has,and will continue to prevent certain things.Not all of the time,but it does happen for sure. Can't turn a blind eye to that, might not have happened to you, but from personal experience I can't agree with hair not having a negative or positive outcome when dealing with jobs and dating.

  • Anonymous says:

    Those of you acting like the issue here is JUST about liking the hairstyle or not are being extremely obtuse! The issue has evolved into the obvious negative perceptions people have of hair that is not "defined" and "shiny." People posting pictures of tumbleweeds when they have never touched that woman's hair further emphasizes that point. Black folks are the most critical and judgmental of other black folks and then try to brush it off behind "preference." That's a smokescreen. People are getting defensive because their backwards attitudes are getting exposed. Do I like the hairstyle personally -NO. Is undefined hair messy, unprofessional, "dry", keep you unemployed, keep you from getting a man and needs definition to be presentable = NO. The fact yall bundled all those prejudices into one package says a lot about your mentalities.

  • curlyJedi says:

    I love undefined blowouts, but if it looks like this, I DON'T THINK SO:
    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://tumbleweedsrus.com/11-53-large/small-tumbleweed.jpg&imgrefurl=http://tumbleweedsrus.com/small/11-small-tumbleweed.html&usg=__l0sSWhFxVvsvOTVznzEY8TNprAg=&h=300&w=300&sz=25&hl=en&start=80&zoom=1&tbnid=3nCBsj3f1KS3uM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtumbleweed%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D578%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C1994&um=1&itbs=1&ei=2sriTOjaAYaBlAfgof3OAw&iact=rc&dur=649&oei=j8riTIfLN8O88gbfpYz9Dg&esq=9&page=5&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:80&tx=113&ty=66&biw=1280&bih=578

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Rose…lmao, I am with you. You can't talk someone into liking a hairstyle, and you can't put them down either. It is disheartening that you can't say I don't like something and state your opinion without someone bringing you down judgement lane and shaming you for it. For goodness sake, its the same reason we don't all dress the same, everyone is into something different. C'mon people!

  • Rose says:

    I am a 4b/undefined natural and have been for over 12yrs now, and I love my hair and I love defined curls. As a lawyer and after examination of that skeetalynn pic, I have to say I couldn't walk in a court room with my hair like that,its way too distracting and my line of work I need people to pay attention to what I'm saying,not my hair.I rock blowouts all the time outside of work and I prefer it not to look like that pic. It is absurd that women are saying you should be ashamed of your preference of what you find attractive or appealing, an opinion is an opinion. Our differences make the world go 'round, there is nothing wrong with saying if you like a hairstyle or not. My verdict is, I don't like it.

  • Juices-n-Berriez says:

    Wow. All I can say is reading peoples comments to this has been very enlightening… And very disheartening. I'm disappointed. Like someone saud previously, we have a long way to go…

  • The Retro Natural says:

    I think her hair looks fine, not dry just not too much light bouncing off it. C'mon ya'll, you know how it is photographing afro textured hair!

    For me, different styles come out for different occasions. It's not so black and white though. Hair styles tend to depend more on where you're going, what kind of scene or event it is and what the elements are gonna be like. I'm sure as we can tell from the comments, some prefer defined, shiny, super styled hair and some fall in the middle. To answer the question, I like both. I like balance. But I don't need shine/sheen as much as I NEED softness.

  • Anonymous says:

    I am 4b. I do not prefer "defined" natural hair. I sometimes ROCK THE HELL out of a straight up afro or picked out look.;) While I do love changing up my hairstyle, the afro in all it's simplistic glory can look stunning. Yes, it also looks "polished" because I'm polished. Since I see so many of you never or rarely see anyone with "undefined" hair, I'll make it a point to do it more often. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Anonymous says:

    mangomadness AMEN and thank you…I agree completely. I'm so tired of this good hair bad hair crap. My hair has sheen/shine and you know what….it snaps like a durn twig! And those Natural Hair rules post…you should be ashamed of your self.

  • Anonymous says:

    I'm embarassed by how ignorant some of you sound. SMDH. Her hair is cute.

  • Anonymous says:

    Maybe it's just where I live, but most naturals I know prefer a defined look, whether it be a braid out, twist out, rod set, or a coifed style. These are people with different textures from curly to super kinky. I don't know anyone wearing a straight up afro, or picked out look. None of them hate their hair, they just like to wear it in those styles, but no afros in my group.

  • SweetThang says:

    The Natural Hair Rules posted @ 11/15/10, 5:34 PM are just too funny.

  • SweetThang says:

    Anonymous @ 11/16/10, 12:56 AM, you took the words right out of my mouth. Some of these people sound like people who perm. Some of them remind me of this girl who was on this blog a couple of weeks ago complaining about why relaxed hair was not discussed on a natural blog. The same one who talked about if you used deodorant, you are not natural. Some of these post sound like the same person.

  • Anonymous says:

    Would love Curlynikki to do a Big Natural Survey 2010 to find out what naturals attitudes to natural hair really are. I think it would paint an interesting picture.

  • Butterfly3000 says:

    Prefer……sometimes depending on the situation, job, event, mood, etc…..
    However, I love my week old twist out, finger combed, frizzy, full, afro. The look when all the twist definition is gone and it just kind of looks like a blown out afro wig.

    http://skeetalynn.blogspot.com/

    That look!

    Since I'm not good with blow dryers, I have to acheive that look with old twist outs or just plain old clean air dryed hair.

  • mangomadness says:

    My hair does NOT have to have some type of definition to be "styled". Rocking a shrunken wash-n-go fro is a style just as when people with other textures (straight, wavy, etc) wash their hair and go.

    My hair does NOT have to have shine for it to look presentable. My hair is NOT shiny naturally. I feel no need to chase shiny hair via products. If my non-shiny hair is not seen as healthy or moisturized but I know it is…so be it.

    I think SOME people in the natural hair community prefer a "polished, mainstream acceptable curly look" versus a kinkier, undefined, combed/brushed out style. I used quotes because ou hair is inherently all of those things–defined or not.

    My hair is naturally undefined. I do NOT have to "define" it for a "polished, mainstream, acceptable or curly" look. I accept my hair in all styles (defined or not) so others will accept it as well. If I thought my hair needed to be defined(aka fixed), then others would think so too.

    Saying "You need shiny, defined hair to look polished and mainstream" is just like saying "You need a perm to look to look polished and mainstream." What is so bad about our hair in its natural state? (NOTE: I am not talking about not shampooing, conditioning, moisturizing, etc I am talking about rocking undefined hair)

    I think it's sad that the good hair/bad hair mentality and the insecurities follow folks after the BC. We have to analyze the way we think and figure out why we think the way we do. Then we have to change the way we think about our hair (and more importantly ourselves). We have a long way to go…

    P.S. I like the hair in the picture and I like "defined" hair as well. I just think it's sad that people think they "need" defined hair to look "presentable".

  • Anonymous says:

    What negativity? Please!!!!

    This is a discussion, everyone don't have to agree, and people shouldn't start attacking others just because they expressed a dislike for this chicks hair style. At least people are being honest!! Hell!!!

    Not every natural shares the same views. Some naturals like their hair tamed, or in place, others like their hair wild, let loose, set free whatever. It shouldn't have to come to (obviously some of these naturals have the same logic as perm pushers) Are you kidding me!!!!

    The chicks hair is tore up. Dry as the Sahara desert with knots on the ends!!! Who the F*ck wants this picture for inspiration!!!!!

  • Anonymous says:

    Yes, thank you keeny and anon 1:40am. There's too much negativity in here. I'm happy with myself and my hair, and more power to people who rock their hair/texture with confidence and love even if it may not be shiny and defined and what so many people have termed "presentable." I'm out.

  • Anonymous says:

    i really wish nikki would've posted the exact same pic from skeetas blog instead of a link, because most ppl are too lazy/dont think to click the inspiration pic, and are reffering to the pic above the post, which isnt bad (atleast its styled and looks moisturized…but the one on skeeta's page…no bueno…and its not that her har lacks definition…its just a hot mess and looks unkempt…their are plenty of 4bs who rock fros and other styles that dont display a curl pattern but atleast it looks neat and moisturized and presentable…but homegirl on skeetas blog looked a mess by the head…i'll give her a pass though because it was clearly a photoshoot or something and she's a model…its not like she was going to her office job or to church, or school, or out the house lol…and what was with the lil stringy not balls on the end…her hair didnt look healthy at all…and wasnt inspiring

    to answer the questions:
    โ€ขDo you feel that your hair must have some type of definition to be "styled"?
    no. a blow out is a style, locs can be styled, fros can be considered styles. (i hope the girl in the skeeta pic didnt call that styled)

    โ€ขDoes your hair have to have shine for it to look presentable, even if it's healthy?
    no. some ppls hair dont have shine or even sheen. but you can still differentiate between moisturized hair and sahara hair, even if its not shiny.

    โ€ขDoes the majority of the natural hair community prefer a polished, mainstream acceptable curly look versus a kinkier, undefined, combed/brushed out style?

    i think so, not even just in the natural community, but in real life, esp. in corporate settings and even the media…but if your hair is naturally curly why should you have to wear a fro/blow out to prove your naturalness, and if you have kinkier less defined hair why should you have to pile on curl creams and gels to get curls you dont naturally have? but why should someone judge you if thats what you wanna do with your hair?

  • Anonymous says:

    @thekeenyliciousfiles
    Yes. Thank you,so true. Between you and Anon 1:40am I'm gonna stop stressing about this discussion. I got a headache and everything from this. Thank you two,and thank you God for my nappy frizzy hair. Goodnight and peace.

  • Anonymous says:

    @ anon 1:40, I agree, if you are solid within yourself and love who you are and feel good about yourself,then there is never a need to defend or feel offended. Just be who you are and take the opinions that you don't agree with,with a grain of salt.But to get upset suggests you might have some underlying issues that some of these preferences and opinions have pulled a scab off of; HENCE insecurities lurking around.

  • Anonymous says:

    some of y'all sound really foolish. WHO ARE YOU to decide if the woman needs a twist out or whatever? i brought up perms b/c your logic sounds EXACTLY like someone saying "oh no, she needs to throw a perm u in there b/c it looks a hot mess" and if someone came up in here saying that ish, y'all would be all over their ass.

    anyway,this discussion is totally pointless. all it really did was confirm what i thought about this so called natural hair "movement". ain't sh*t changed about the way some ppl feel about their hair… same sh*t different style.

    goodnight all.

  • Anonymous says:

    It sucks that not everyone is gonna like everyone's hair type or style, but why argue or get defensive over things you can't ever change.It is a waste of time and positive energy, let someones preference be their preference without it offending you. They say arguing a point is just your ego trying to prove something. Let go of the ego's, there are more important issues out there in the world, why defend your preference or opinion.

  • Anonymous says:

    I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that people who have a texture that is undefined and "looks" dry need to do something about it. Not everyone has hair that is easily defined or that looks all shiny and moisturized. Her hair style aside, I see nothing wrong with her texture. It closely resembles my own, and I would flip out if something said I needed to fix it with twists or braids.

  • Anonymous says:

    I think she is dope! I love her hair and her confidence. I have been natural for over twelve years. I purposely wore a twa for three years. Not because my hair couldn't grow, but because I got it cut every week. When I decided to let my hair grow. I told myself that I wanted a funky deconstructed afro. It is different lenghts, with some short pieces and some long pieces. It can look the same if I need it to. I think that it just adds to the mystique. I am saying this because until last year I didn't not even know that I had curly, coily or whatever you want to call it hair. I have a distinct "s" pattern all over, mostly pencil sized. So, I could actually go with a defined look. I LOVE FRIZZ! The bigger the better. I don't care about definition. Even if I do a twist out it always goes back to the "s". Sometimes in life people are not goimg to like what you do and that is okay. I just like doing my own thing. I get stares, but alot of times I get compliments. I think her hair is presentable and it is combed to her liking. So, if I look like a frizzy Corbin Bleau…………..that's okay! Life is precious, enjoy it.

    Brandy B.

  • Alex says:

    As a well educated/creative natural curly women from NYC,the land of diversity and open mindedness; it doesn't matter if her hair is downy soft to the touch and is well moisturized,it doesn't look it. And I'm with the men on this one, it's my opinion and no one can argue it or should get mad. We shouldn't be dividing ourselves btw perms and naturals either,it's just as bad as racism.But if someone ain't feeling a style,or a cut,then that's just preference.

  • Anonymous says:

    Is she a model? If so that would explain the style,since its not always something you'd wear out to work in fashion shows. Its something to either go with a theme,or complement the clothes(which don't always seem real life applicable either sometimes! ). I can see how you'd think its dry,but it may be fine,and its the light.

  • Anonymous says:

    LOOKS rough. You ain't got your fingers in her hair. I've seen the silkest looking hair in the world,then you touch it and it feels like hay. The style is different. Funky. Its creative,and just cause it ain't the same ol' twist outs and such doesn't make it ugly. Bet where she wears it s accepted. Probably because the people are more open minded than alot of folks on here. Ya'll ain't no better than permies calling naturals nappy and unkempt it seems. Not all of you. Just more than is acceptable.

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Alex^^^

    Exactly. When it comes down to it just because I'm natural doesn't mean I automatically have to embrace everything another natural does. Her hair texture is not in question, but the way she chose to style her hair that makes it look dehydrated. And the cut is hideous!!! And i would NOT give this picture to anyone for hair style inspiration. POINT BLANK AND SIMPLE!!!!!!

  • Alex says:

    No one is saying anything about perms, we are talking about maintaining your mane.You don't have to have a perm or straighten your hair for it to look nice.But the hair in that pic needs some twist outs,braid outs,moisture, something because it doesn't look nice,it looks rough.

  • Anonymous says:

    I hope the lady in that picture is just experimenting. Whoo child!!!

  • Anonymous says:

    keeny and anon 12:56….you just said everything I was thinking.

  • Anonymous says:

    sorry for the typos. my keyboard is acting up. my writing isnt that bad, i swear

  • Anonymous says:

    Wow,if anything will scare a person away from going natural its "debates" like these!
    If we're really worried our hair will lose us our job,I know one that won't. Perms. I thought natural was embracing your hair DESPITE other people. Whats the point of my going natural if I still have to play up to other peoples standards? Might as well keep it straight,shiny,and hire-able.Some of you sound like people who perm because its the "only way" to succeed.

  • Anonymous says:

    TBH everyone is talking about "it's just preference" now, but earlier it was "oh well it's not presentable". if you feel it's not for you, say that. what's w/ all the "you don't have to let yourself go" "it looks like a bird's nest" and talking about how someone will never get a job or a man w/ that style? that's not a matter of preference, and if you really feel it is then your forcing your opinion on others. who are you to say whether a person can land a good job w/ that hair? who are you to say they arent taking care of their hair?

    i hate to go there, but if someone w/ a perm said that ish…

  • Anonymous says:

    Im about to go to bed, but I just showed the picture to my boyfriend. He just looked at it and said "No" and walked off.

    I'm 4A/4B as well, but he loves my hair, so maybe this particular skeetalynn pic is just a preference thing.

    Love the discussions. Some of you literally had me laughing out loud. It's all in Natural Love and that is what this community is about.

    Goodnight Sisters!

  • Anonymous says:

    ^^^ We're talking about "defined" hair, whatever that means to you, and if you prefer it. Like some people have said, it's a matter of opinion. I personally have no problem with her hair. I don't like the cut, but I would have no problem wearing my hair like that. It looks presentable to me.

  • Anonymous says:

    I'm confused!! Are we talking about naturals who do not have a natural curl pattern, naturals who have a defined curl pattern but comb it out to get the (bush)look, or naturals who manipulate there curl pattern with twist or braids.

    Because the girls hair in that picture doesn't look like it has a curl pattern. It looks like nappy hair that has been picked or something. I mean that doesn't look presentable at all!!! I mean good god eeek!!!

  • Anonymous says:

    @Jason. Amen!

  • Jason says:

    Iโ€™m a man with a natural haired girlfriend and I donโ€™t like that hair inspiration/skeetalynn pic.. and who can argue that if itโ€™s my opinion.

  • Anonymous says:

    i just want to make sure we are all looking at the same picture. http://skeetalynn.blogspot.com/2010/11/natural-love.html.

    That right there…is D.R.Y.and is kind of just sticking out. Her cute face saved it, but for real. I love natural hair, but some of you are trying to be like it's all "Natural Love" but lets just agree to disagree.
    PS. Nothing to do with having good vs. bad hair. I promise, just that I don't like it.

  • Anonymous says:

    I personally don't think it is a matter of "good hair". I honestly feel it is preference. I have really curly 3B hair but I comb my curls out. When I do this, my hair is NOT defined and more bushy AND duller than it would be if my curls were clumped together. It is the look I am going for though. Do I get stares? Yes. Would I wear my hair like that to an interview? No. Would I wear my hair like that on a 1st date? Perhaps, if Im i the mood. Do I wear my hair "bushed up" if I want to stand out. Most definitely. Again,do I get stares when I do this? You bet. Do I care? No. so what I am trying to say is that do you. Some people just DO NOT like that look. I have girlfriends who twist their every night and look damn good. I have friend who just wash and let me it be and look damn good. So I honestly feel like some of you are making this deeper than it should be. There are individuals still living with the "good hair" syndrome, but I honestly feel people deserve to have a preference.

    ~Sis

  • Anonymous says:

    and anyway, who the eff said anything about going to an interview like that?! do y'all only wear your hair in professional styles 24/7. the question was whether you think a style needs to be defined to be cute or acceptable and ppl immediately jump to the professional world to justify the beliefs. if you think hair needs to have defined curls, just say that. i wouldn't were THAT style i a professional setting, no matter how defined, i doubt anyone would, so what's the point of bringing up professional setting?

  • Alex says:

    i don't think these ladies are bashing undefined hair.I personally think a lot of undefined hair on women is beautiful,but come on…that inspiration pic you see when you click on the link doesn't look flattering.This is a rare case,I haven't seen undefined hair like that since the movie ROOTS,and I live in NYC where there are tons of beautiful undefined and defined naturals.

  • Anonymous says:

    @anon 11:47, that's the thing. To me, her hair looks like it's in place. It doesn't look anything like a "dry bird's nest." And I actually have worn my hair like that, and I had no issues detangling it. It comes down to keeping your hair moisturized and knowing how to care for it. I guess I was mistaken when I thought this was common sense.

  • Anonymous says:

    Anon 11:57 apparently Jheri juicy and throwback curly pudding induced 80's sculpture curls are what's hot on the natural streets these days lol!
    Sistas stop the madness.

  • Anonymous says:

    some ppl just exchanged one idea of good hair or acceptable for another. idk how defined curls are any more 'professional' than a curl free fro. that's the same thing as saying someone's hair is unacceptable in it's natural state. some ppl don't have any dyam sense. i'm over it.

  • Anonymous says:

    Having finger combed undefined hair does NOT equal letting yourself go either. Again, it gets back to folks ideas that groomed hair must look ONE way. That's extremely narrow and prejudiced.
    If no one on here touched that woman's hair, then how can you say it's a dry birds nest? The harsh light this shines on all this natural hair kumbaya is truly sad. What a fraud.

  • Anonymous says:

    Anon 11:42, I feel exactly how you feel and I couldn't have said it better myself. I thought the girl's hair was beautiful and I would have happily walked outside with it like that. Why? Because it doesn't look dry to me. At all. It looks like gorgeous, healthy hair. Sure, it might not be glistening like a juiced-up jheri curl or shellacked with curly puddings, but I think it's beautiful. It's her hair. And she's wearing it. It's what she's comfortable with.

    I don't really understand all these "it looks dry" comments. Just because it looks dry doesn't mean it is. And you know what? Maybe it was a style that didn't turn out right, like someone else said, but what's wrong with that? She's confident enough to wear it. It makes me think back to all those days when I freaked out over my hair not coming out perfectly in the morning, even though it looked perfectly fine. It makes me think that a lot of this is a self-confidence issue.

  • Anonymous says:

    Everyone should comb their hair, whether you are 1A or 4Z. Just cause you are natural, does not give you a pass to wake up with your hair all mashed up. Nothing is wrong with using a little product and "shining" up your hair. My gosh! Going natural does not equate to letting yourself go! C'mon son!

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 11:31
    The end!!! LOL!!!. If you look at my response you would see that I stated I like my hair in place not looking like a dry birds nest!! Maybe that's how your hair looks. Dry and crackling. Plus when you do decide to wear your hair like that I hope you have fun when it time to comb that dry mess out!!! Maybe I am a psychic, because I see breakage and knots in your future. Oh, The End!!!

  • Anonymous says:

    Anon 11:22…I'm still afraid ๐Ÿ™ I can't believe how blatant some of you all are getting with this ignorance. All this time I thought this blog (and others like it) was about building our self-esteem after years of believing that our natural just wasn't good enough. Now I see that some of you ladies have simply traded one idea of "good hair" for another.

    "I can't leave the house without getting my permed touched up". "I cannot leave the house unless my twist out is ~shined and defined~". Shamefully, the two sentences sound just alike. Dumb.

    Please, it's fine for you (general you, because a lot of folks have said it) to wallow in your insecurity. But don't project your acceptance issues onto those of us who are self-assured. I love my hair as it is, at the same time–I know that I am not my hair. Because of those two things, I'm happy with my strands no matter the tightness of its texture. As long as it's moist and healthy, I'm at peace.

  • Anonymous says:

    Alex you are talking about in some cases abnormal and excessive hair growth patterns- growth patterns frequently associated with males not females. How can you compare abnormal hair growth to natural hair texture? Seriously? Natural hair that is clean does not need to be "fixed". It does not need to be shined like a shoe and tortured to look like an imitation of somebody else's hair whether that hair is curly or straight.

  • Anonymous says:

    LMAO at these people who project their own insecurities on everyone else. Just because YOU wouldn't walk outside with hair like that doesn't mean that "half of us" wouldn't. Unless some of you are psychic and can seriously predict what other people would do, please sit down and stop with the whole "You all know you wouln't wear your hair like that" and be honest….The truth is that you yourself wouldn't. The end.

  • Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 10:47^^^^^

    I know that's right!!!! That chicks hair is bone dry, parched as hell!!! I prefer my hair in place. Plus that doesn't look like a bow out, it looked like she picked it out got tired and said " who gives a damn I'll rock this half ass style"
    Y'all sticking up for that girl in the picture but half of you wouldn't even go outside with your hair looking like that. As much product junkies we have on this hair board and countless others, people left and right asking what products do everyone uses to get curl definition. Please!!! Not trying to offend anybody, just speaking the truth.

  • Alex says:

    @ anon 11:08pm, just because it grows out of your head doesn't mean it looks good on you.Women who have hair grow out of their chins and above their lips,ex:mustache,that ish ain't cute and they pluck,wax,nair,etc… to fix it.

  • Anonymous says:

    Thank god for Anon 11:08. The voice of TRUTH. I was getting scared ladies.

  • jeanlouisangel says:

    What I found very interesting is that I am of a faith that does not subscribe to jewelry. So when i have loose curls, or my hair in an uncoifed fro, it doesnt look as good to most or acceptable than if I wore some earrings or alot of make-up. The same hairstyle could be appropriate and acceptable based on accessories. So I have come to the conclusion, that if its decent to you, it should be acceptable to all..Beauty is in the eyes of the one that conveys it..

  • Anonymous says:

    The thing that still trips me out about these comments is how some of yall are still equating undefined hair with untamed, unprofessional, unbecoming,and dull. How can hair that grows out of your scalp not fit you? SMH. Black people need some serious counseling!

  • Anonymous says:

    Anonymous 10:29 don't foist your views about acceptable natural hair and visiting this site on everybody.I come here because the blog is updated frequently and there's good information for ALL hairtypes NOT because Niki has shiny curls. Her hair is not mine. If I enjoyed the sista with the blow-outs style why wouldn't I visit her site???

    …and why would anybody be afraid to stand out from the crowd? If you wanted to assimilate and look like everybody else, why not just perm it up and get your generic back on. *shrug*

  • Anonymous says:

    to all the women who are upset and defending the picture of the women with the blow out; if you were really feeling her blowout then why do you come to curlynikki's site?Its because her hair looks healthy,shiny,and well kept,and you want to see how its done,which prompts you here.If curlynikki's hair looked like that blowout,you guys wouldn't come to this site,lets be real ladies.

  • Anonymous says:

    half of yall probably up twisting right now, preparing for tomorrow. I know I am. LOL.
    Love you ladies! Goodnight

    @Anon 9:57- boo you may need to cut them ends off so your roots can flourish!

  • Anonymous says:

    I am currently transitioning and my roots are real poufy and my ends are straight. It is not cute, but I have never had short hair, so I want it to grow out some more before cutting it off. Im not sure what my texture is right now, but I will say, I would rather have a softer texture than something dry. If it is dry, I will not wear it out like that picture, but will wear a more polished look and probably just keep it straightened but without a relaxer. I'm not going natural for a "natural" look, I'm going natural because I don't want to put chemicals in my hair anymore. After much research, I think my hair will be healthier natural and straight vs. relaxed and straight. It is MY preference to have tamed hair. Just because your hair sticks up in the morning, does not mean you don't have the option to tame it. I agree that if you are going on an interview you should definitely tame your hair. Even if you are meeting a man out on a 1st date, I think it is nice to have a more tamed look too, but again this is just MY opinion. Just so you know, I do have a job and a boo, even though my man has made side comments about my roots, he still loves me and I explained to him that I am transitioning and to wait until it grows out before forming opinions. As far as my job's opinions, no one has been commenting, but I have mostly just been wearing a bun.

  • Unknown says:

    This thread has certainly made it to an interesting place. From such a seemingly innocuous question too….

    At the risk of being "tsk'd" at (LOL) I must ask: is anyone really so ugly on the inside that they can't find love or gainful employment because of their natural texture? All the RL people I know who can't find one or the other have serious internal issues they need to work out. If anyone commenting here is struggling in those areas, maybe you should work on taming your inner demons instead of your hair.

    Or, perhaps some of you all are surrounding yourself with negative people. Any man stuck on stupid like the ones you all are describing is not worthy of me. I don't make it a habit of lowering myself for unworthy men. Because of that, none of the guys I've dated (am dating ๐Ÿ˜€ ) had issues with my hair. Same goes for any job, school, internship I've ever interviewed for. Haven't been turned down yet. Been natural all my life.

  • Anonymous says:

    Polish or wild and loose-it is up to the individual. When I first went natural I was spent so much time on making sure my hair was defined and when it wasn't I felt like I was un-kept. Then I realized if I wanted defined hair I could have just stayed relaxed and strapped to the salon chair. Now I embrace my hair in all it's natural glory. Sometimes it looks defined, sometimes it isn't and I don't take it task for not doing what I want it to do. I respect my hair and it respects me…lol

  • Anonymous says:

    @Anon 8:31, I have seen for myself where hair/ image has played a part in getting a job. Jobs are limited right now and everyone is not afforded the option to work somewhere where they can wear the hairstyles or clothing they choose. Especially working in very conservative environments, this can hold you back. It is very sad, but very true. If I am applying for an Executive Assistant postion for an Executive and a big firm, Yes, I will pull my hair back into a conservative style and adjust to the environment in order to have a better chance of getting the job.

    I can understand the personal part of your life and choosing a man that does not care how you wear your hair, but in the professional field, it is a totally different issue.

    I just want to say that just because you are natural does not mean you have to be "extreme" or have to stand out all the time. Although that is the beauty of our hair, sometimes, it is not good to stand out, especially when going into a structured environment. Also, I know naturals who prefer to wear their hair straight 100% of the time. It is just a preference and honestly from what I am seeing a lot of people are just not comfortable wearing blown out dry hair. Be blessed if you are able to get any job and any man wearing your hair any kind of way, but that is not the case for a lot of females.

    Thank you,
    DeeDee

  • Anonymous says:

    To that Alex I say that man and that job weren't worth having. When you know your worth, you don't settle based on someone else's issues and prejudices. That's misery waiting to happen.

  • Tiffany says:

    I am happier when my hair shines, I just think it looks so much more beautiful when it does.

    Peace, Love and Chocolate
    Tiffany

  • Alex says:

    Tisk,tisk ladies,no need to be offended off of opinions.Everyone won't agree all the time.And no one can speak for everyone,because I do know people who have had problems getting jobs and/or a man because of their hair,and I know that for a FACT!How do we speak for those people?We can't.It might not have happened to you,but it does happen to others.It's not right,but the world isn't fair and we all know that.

  • Anonymous says:

    Wow some of yall commenting about being single and underemployed based on hair are really on some other stuff! I've been dreaded, twisted and fro-ed out for the better part of 15 years and have always been employed in some of the best medical and research institutions in this country…and oh yeah stay with a man that loves me and my hair. Never had a problem three. My stance is I have enough skills, education, beauty and self esteem that I won't work or play with someone that doesnt accept me and my style. It's called having options.

  • Maria says:

    I think the models hair looks beautiful, but I would not rock this style. My hair is too long and it would be about 4 feet high LOL Plus I can't imagine the tangles.

  • Anonymous says:

    I don't care about definition. If I get it cool, if I don't cool. I have "4a/4b" hair and have gotten great definition. But personally, I like a more messy look; messy, but moisturized.

  • Shakirah says:

    Not just commenting on the style in the pic, I'm talking about thus need for definition. As long as it's presentable, who says it needs a curl pattern. Btw, i worked in corporate america and I'm happily married.

  • Shakirah says:

    I've had ppl tell me that u wouldn't get a job bc of my hair, my name, or my social opinions. To date, I have never (to my knowledge) been turned down for such. And if I was, the company that decides my intellect and ppl skills aren't enough for their job, or that they would deny me for something as simple as hair, i don't want to work for their prejudice ass anyway. They just did me a favor by not wasting my time or talent. I refuse to cater.

  • Appleonia says:

    I agree,you are not entering into a professional career with amazing pay and great benefits like a 401k plan wearing your hair like that.Professionals that are hiring are not having it; even some people in the HR departments will let you know that.And if you can't be a chameleon this day and age then you just won't get the job, and might I add a man for that matter.Do what you want on the weekends,but if your lacking on dates and a quality career,then you need to re access your image and priorities.

  • Anonymous says:

    If you look closely at the picture from the blog http://skeetalynn.blogspot.com/2010/11/natural-love.html it looks like she has some single strand knots hanging off, so that is why it looks dry. If she had more moisture and or a little pattern, it would look better. Nothing is wrong with the texture, it is more the dryness.

  • Anonymous says:

    Ok. 1st. Yall need to stop playing…Aint none of yall walking up in a job interview with this style from above or that style on Skeeta's blog. You better throw some oil and some twist up in there. It's cute, but for professional work,let's be honest, THIS WILL NOT WORK. Blame it on the society we live in, but it's just that. I have no problems conforming to societal standards if it means me getting a better job or even getting a job at all. I'll wear my hair anyway I want on the weekend, but during the week, it definitely has to be defined, styled and glistening. At the end of the day, wear your hair you want, but be prepared to pay the consequences, whether it's a missed job opportunity or odd stares, or comments. If you don't care, then do you. If you do care, throw some oil up in there.

  • PostGradGraduate says:

    I think those rules are pretty on point.Nobody likes to admit that everyone can't rock certain natural hair styles.Women should do what is most flattering to their face,that pic of her hair is not flattering for her face.You don't have to embrace hair "as is"if it is not flattering,just as you wouldn't embrace having acne on your face and you would do everything to fix it.I often wonder if most women that get upset by these preferences are single.It is what it is,trust and believe most men are saying "no" to women who are rocking hair that isn't flattering or becoming on that woman.At the end of the day why wouldn't you want to look your best or rock hair that suits you the most.

  • Charrisespieces says:

    When my hair is overly defined I feel like a have jheri curl, and I hate it! I love fluffy big hair with moderate to minimal definition. My go to style is wearing my hair out after it has been bunned for about three days, then it is super stretched soft and easy to fluff.

    I personally love the hair in the pic. It looks fluffy and funky and chic.

  • Channing says:

    Hot mess? I think that's a little much…

    Maybe i'm in the minority cause i don't see anything wrong with her hair, maybe i'm not looking at the same picture?

    I also don't understand people's obsession with curl definition and shine? Wasn't the point of this natural thing accepting and embracing your hair as is?? *shrugs*

    My question is, why are we constantly focusing on these "issues" it seems like everytime I read anything lately is about this so called division in the natural community, and i don't know about everyone else but i'm not encountering it as seriously as people make it seem, it's constantly being discussed as if it's some sort of epedimic which IMO it's not.

    No group whether black, natural hair, women, etc is going to agree 100%, feel the same way, or think the same things, and no issue is unique to one specific group, plenty of type 1 and 2's have greasy hair, shiny hair, hair color debates, so why not instead of costantly bringing it up like that's all that's going on, focus on some more positivity, cause if we spend all our time looking for what's going wrong, we're going to completely forget about everything that's going right in this natural hair community…let keep our perspective.

  • Anonymous says:

    The natural rules were amazing, thank you.
    This topic just smacks of "good hair" issues, that we have got to get over.

  • Anonymous says:

    I'm dying over here at the Natural rules LOLZ!
    No. 4, and No 10 just blew me away because that's the elephant in the room that naturals love to ignore under the umbrella "preference." It's one thing to have a preference, it's another to have a PREJUDICE.

  • Anonymous says:

    In the picture, the girl's hair looked a hot mess.I've done a blow out before, and I certainly looked better than that!.

  • Anonymous says:

    i love all natural hair. defined or fro i love it

  • Channing says:

    @AusetAbena

    Try banding your hair wet and letting it dry, or you can also wrap it in the way you'd wrap relaxed hair, both give a blown out look w/o actually blowing it out.

  • Unknown says:

    DEAD @ "the natural rules" especially #4 rofl I think a lot of natural women are walking around worried that folks with negro napps will give "natural curls" a bad name. Embarrassment, indeed. A modern day 10 commandments. And the church said, Amen.

  • Anonymous says:

    The Natural Rules.

    1. Thou shalt only do wash and gos if thou hast that good hair.
    2. Thou shalt not wear a TWA unless thou ist slim and pretty.
    3. Thou shalt only wear thy hair loose if it is 4a curly and upwards.
    4. Thou shalt PS 24/7 if thy hair is nappy for fear thou kinks should embarrass thy fellow black brethren.
    5. Thou must have the right face for twists, fros, TWAs and blowouts
    6. Thou must have the right face and body fat levels before thou dost attempt to go natural.
    7. 4b and upwards hair ist most dry and unkempt, thou must hide it.
    8. Mine preference for good hair does not indicate extreme prejudice for it ist mine preference and nothing more sub conscious than that.
    9. Mine foundations are so shaky that I must ignore all debate and the issues that dost arise among my fellow naturals for fear the the rainbow is not enuff.
    10. If thou hast curls, thy needs to do NOUGHT for it to be 'done'. For as it naturally grows from thine head it is done. But heed this you nappy haired women, thou must do 50-11 things to make sure that your hair ist done for as it grows from your head it is not done and is unkempt and wild. These thoughts are just a preference, no sub conscious, subliminal messaging taught from birth. Just preference.

  • Shakirah says:

    i agree with anon 5:23pm
    i personally like my hair picked out, stretched, twisted out, braided out, banded, shrunken, ANYTHING, as long as it's intentional.
    however, i find it odd that so many of the natural women on this site find undefined hair to be inappropriate for the workplace and state that they have only seen women with natural hair in the work place wear it that way. it seems like just another way to cater to "the other opinion". if that's what you prefer to wear, that's fine, but to imply that it's unacceptable… :-/

  • Anonymous says:

    To me, it's less a matter of curl definition/luster and more a question of whether your style looks…intentional for lack of a better word. The woman in the picture looks like she intended for her hair to look that way–the care she took with her outfit and accessories emphasizes that fact, imo. If she were wearing a torn t-shirt and sweats, I might wonder if she'd just rolled out of bed and had to get to the bus stop fast. ๐Ÿ™‚ I've seen a lot of straight-haired folks sporting the 'bed head' look and to me, the same rationale applies. So it's less about hair type to me and more about the nebulous idea of intentional style.

  • Anonymous says:

    @BrownEmber – your comment seems to be the thinking among many within and outside the natural hair community. Sad.

    Do you feel that your hair must have some type of definition to be "styled"?

    No. I do take umbrage at looser haired people being sanctioned in their right to wear their hair out loose and tighter, coilier haired women somehow being unkempt for doing the same. If the person who made the spiteful comment on that blog had seen a full head of curly loose hair, she would have instinctively felt it was fine. There are many others who feel like her but don't admit or question it. What does that say about society both online and offline?

    Does your hair have to have shine for it to look presentable, even if it's healthy?

    No if you have 4 type hair like mine more specifically 4b then it does not shine. People who covet shine should ask themselves where that desire comes from? To me, it is type 1 that has the most shine and reflects the light more than other types. In Western culture shine is a sign of healthy hair yet many of us only have sheen to our hair or even the dull quality that the model in the OP pic link has. People associate shiny hair with good hair and try to judge our hair in the terms used by a white western culture. Often type 4bs are accused of having dry hair which when touched proves to be soft and moisturised and as healthy as the 3c with all the curls and shine in the world. It just doesn't shine as it doesn't reflect light well. Is that so hard to grasp? Is someone's hair less than because it can't blind you? Ignorance.

    Does the majority of the natural hair community prefer a polished, mainstream acceptable curly look versus a kinkier, undefined, combed/brushed out style?

    Yes on the whole unless the undefined kinky haired girl has long hair or a BAA (bad a** afro). It seems there is more love off and online for defined curls and waves and shiny hair most associated with type 1-4a hair.

    I think black people more than others have always cared what society thinks about the outer appearance and hair that seems tamed and easier to manage which is not so different to the norm among the rest of society, is viewed as more professional, tidy and acceptable. How often do we see naturals on hair boards talk about how 4a/b and 4bs (non defined curls) should not be doing wash and gos or look unkempt?

  • Anonymous says:

    I prefer a defined look my preference!

  • Anonymous says:

    I naturally have 3b/c spiral defined curls that I love with some pouf and frizz,and I put less product in my hair so it won't be so neat.I like blow outs on certain women,I think you have to have the face for it; a blowout is not complimentary on everyone.

  • Unknown says:

    Um. What if someone's hair doesn't HAVE "definition" or a "curl" to it? They should wear their hair in PS or twist/braidouts 100% of the time? Or maybe their hair's not good enough to be natural. Maybe they should just get a perm and be done with it, they simply don't have "good hair". Only the folks with shiny, defined curls should have the luxury of a simple wash n wear. What a gross, backwards idea.

  • Unknown says:

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • Chantel says:

    * Do you feel that your hair must have some type of definition to be "styled"? Not really I like the definition from twist outs and braid outs but I also like my hair to be care-free and less defined example my chunky braidouts that make me look like "side show bob"as others have stated.

    * Does your hair have to have shine for it to look presentable, even if it's healthy? I don't usually focus on the "shine factor" when styling my hair. I care more about it being soft to the touch and moisturized.

    * Does the majority of the natural hair community prefer a polished, mainstream acceptable curly look versus a kinkier, undefined, combed/brushed out style? I think that just goes back to the whole good hair/bad hair/3Avs4B issue. I do believe that a lot of women desire a more defined curl because its more widely accepted as neat. Is this a problem, no because you like what you like. On the flip side you have people like me who enjoy the versatility of going from a curlier look to a kinkier one.

  • Anonymous says:

    Thank you Vicsharbest! Who even gets to decide what is "polished" or not. Honestly, where do we get these standards from?

  • Anonymous says:

    The picture of le coil is absolutely adorable and I love that look. I do think some of this defined/ undefined and shiny/not shiny are remnants of this good hair or bad hair thing. People are loathe to admit it because I think we still have a lot of shame about admitting how we cling to our programming (*cough* brainwashing). I do wear my hair "defined" via twist-out or braid out a lot, but I actually love the volume and just plain fierceness some FRIZZ can add to a style. This weekend I planned to wear a big volumous frohawk for a party, but my twist out done on dry hair was too defined, shiny, and FLAT. I almost got back in the shower to wet it to get some pump into it! Now a few days later after wetting it, sleeping on it and having it swell I LOVE it. Many types of Afro-textured hair can have sheen and moisture without shine. I'm frustrated sometimes we can't judge afro hair on its own merits. It would be nice to get to a point when we say that we can appreciate ALL natural hair and actually mean it (even if it's not a style that we think looks good on us). I'm not loving the Frederick Douglass blow out on me, but you know I can look at that sista's picture and love the beautiful texture of it and say hey that's very cool hair.

  • Anonymous says:

    What's acceptable about your hair is what you like. This is the what I don't get from some in the natural hair community. Just because one person's hair is "dry" looking or the curls aren't "defined" like the next person, doesn't make that person's hair unacceptable. Why is there a need for comparisons? What matters is whether or not the hair is healthy. I'm really getting tired of the comparisons and the hair-typing; as if one hair type is better than another. We really need to get out of these "boxes" and realize we are all different, which is why some of you get disappointed when products that work for one natural doesn't work for you. It doesn't mean the product isn't good, it may just mean your hair didn't like it. The same goes for styling. Just because another natural chooses to wear a blow out without definition, doesn't mean she's not presentable. We're all beautiful in our own way.
    -Vicsharbest

  • Lissie says:

    A picture worth a thousand words. From my POV, I don't think the girl hair looks dry at all! I also don't think her hair is blown out either. But I do believe it's partially stretched by being picked/combed out. I share the same curl pattern and thickness with the lovely lady and my hair is definitely not dry. But to each her own, I guess.

    To answer the question 1.) No 2.) No 3.) I'm not sure

  • caracara says:

    I prefer a more defined look-twist-outs and wash n gos. I happen to like my curl pattern-yes-I admit it!

  • Anonymous says:

    I'm going thru a "bigger is better" phase with my hair, and the more fluff and frizz my hair has, the bigger it is. I do like to have a nice shine on my hair, but if the shape of it (old braid- or twist-out) appeals to me at the time, I can sacrifice a little shine. However, if my hair FEELS dry and my scalps feels itchy, it's getting oiled down immediately. Scratching my scalp in public is a no-no!

  • JustTrena says:

    LOL @ the second Anon @2:48p… now that I see which photo the others were referring to, I can understand. It's not the undefined-ness that makes it look like that though, it's the ends! And that blunt chop on that front section!
    *smh while lol…

  • Anonymous says:

    This is exactly what I was saying on another forum. Wearing natural hair in a fro or a blowout is not acceptable by a lot of naturals. Thats why others are so concerned with other naturals about curl definition and saying that were obsessed. I'm about to contradict myself, but I like twist outs with nice definition also. Its just my preference though.

  • Bitty Boss says:

    I like to define my hair via braidouts and twistouts. Keeps the single strand knots at bay and keeps the hair smooth, whicn I like.

    http://adventuresinbayarealand.blogspot.com/

  • Anonymous says:

    Yall know that girl hair looks dry in the picture.

    I like defined. Not Shirly Temple/ Jheri Curl defined, but something that is not sticking out with no rhyme or reason. All the professional natural women I know where defined hair. NO blow outs here!

  • Anonymous says:

    i think everyone like the pic above, but thats not the pic that the person said was dry looking
    this is:http://skeetalynn.blogspot.com/2010/11/natural-love.html
    and i admit it does look dry

  • Anonymous says:

    Just this weekend someone came up to me and commented on my hair which was in double strand twists. Although she was complimentary she said something that made me want to correct her. She said I want to wear my hair natural but still be professional looking. I thought to myself, what is your definition of professional? There are times when I want my hair big and undefined and times when I want it defined. I love the fact that we have options with our hair and there will be people who never accept our hair in it's natural state especially big. We just need to keep wearing our hair the way we prefer and not judgement or rude comments to others for wearing their hair the way they prefer.

  • Carmel Stacks says:

    Me personally I prefer an undefined twist out. It looks like it could possibly be a twist out from the shape of it but it doesn't have any shiny corkscrew thingies. Defined hair reminds me too much of jehri curls and I think I suffer from PTSD in regards to those.

  • Anonymous says:

    I saw the picture on Skeeta's blog and I think it is the "CUT" of her hair that is hurting her look, not necessarily the fact that there isn't definition.

  • kitka82 says:

    I like it both ways. Personally, if I do a blowout, I like some extra details, like a coupla braids or a headband, flowers, sump'n. I think the accessories make the look.

    I'm not obsessed with (curl) definition. Sometimes I shellac it up, sometimes I like it airy and "poufy." My fave thing to do with my TWA right now is to moisturize with water and Shea Moisture shea butter leave-in, seal with coconut oil, and twirl some of my hair to give it soft definition.

    So what… who cares?? *SNL The View reference, anyone?*

  • Anonymous says:

    I generally prefer curl definition, but this girl's hair looks amazing. She looks beautiful w/ great style, so I def. disagree with the comment.

  • Unknown says:

    Ummmmm… Yes. I like definition. I make no apologies for it. But it doesn't have to be a lot.

    I'm not worried about shine. But I did worry about that when I was relaxed. My hair gets dry now and I spray it with water/condish. Problem solved. Aside from that, I don't think about it.

    I have no idea what others think about undefined vs defined hair. I live in a city where people are rocking natural hair, long and short on a regular basis. We don't judge each other's hair but we do provide advice if asked. I think polished is in the eye of the beholder. I have a difficult time when people use words like "majority" and concerns about what the majority thinks. I don't care about the majority. And if they're worrying about someone else's hair- I don't even want to hang out with them.

  • Ms. Sassy says:

    I could wear my hair any way and be fine with it. My hair is cotton like when dry. Sadly, I get negative comments when I wear it like that. Hair doesn't have to look extra shiny, but I do think healthy hair has a certain luster to it and doesn't look dry. It looks soft

  • Anonymous says:

    I have been natural for 17 months and the first 12 months I thought I had to use stylers for my hair to look fab(before I became a curlynikki stalker). Now I love "naked" hair! My hairtype is 3c/4a so I do still have definition but mostly frizz and that is exactly how I like it. So many people tell me that I look like Tracey Ellis Ross…score!

  • Carla says:

    Though I do like my hair to MOVE (generally don't use a lot of products), I do like some definition. If I'm doing a specific style, like the woman in the photo, I may "let go" a bit for the sake of the style. But for my day-to-day hair, I like some definition, but I don't break my neck or goop my hair down for it either.

  • Tasha says:

    I prefer a more defined look. It doesn't have to be "mainstream" so to speak. I like a defined curl pattern even with a wild "weekend " hairstyle. One of my biggest reasons that I prefer defined styles is because I've only been natural for a little over a year and I'm still extra excited about all the ways we can wear it. So I'm constantly on the blogs and youtube looking for style ideas. Heck I'm even going to try the twist and curl today as well. The thing about blow outs and fros(I will rock them when I'm in the mood) is they have already been done by my parents' generation. But it seems as though back in the day that was ALL that was done with our natural texture. But learning all the different style options we have now makes it easy for me to appreciate the versatility of being natural. Right now I'm rocking an afro puff, but I do love all the other style options we have with our natural texture.(twists, twistouts, braids, braid outs, twist and curls, wash n go's, etc..) VERSATILITY is a major advantage of it natural hair. I love various hairstyles on various people.

  • Anonymous says:

    everyone talks about twist outs like it lvs the hair lookin shiny.my honest opinion is that most 4a/b hair still looks dry.the best method for me is Natural belle's

  • JustTrena says:

    To comment negatively about undefined hair (hair without curls) is basically the same as the "good" vs "bad" hair issue. Although there's a lot more of us accepting our "natural" selves, there's still so much more to learn and love about ourselves. *said with love ya'll…

  • G.Danielle says:

    For my own head, I prefer definition. It just looks neater.

    I do not associate shine with health. We all have bad days. Maybe a person was trying a new product that made their hair look dull, that doesn't mean it's not healthy.

  • AusetAbena says:

    I don't even like to comb my hair, which takes away from the definition, because I think that combing curly hair too much can leady to breakage. What other way is there to get blown out looking hair except to dry comb (a big no-no for me) or pick it out from root to tip. Definition is what I prefer, but natural definition. I also like twist outs because the strands of the hair are protected more when they are in clump, rather than having each strand out on its own.

  • Anonymous says:

    ehh – it really depends on the day. My hair is at an awkward length right now so sometimes undefined and shrunken is perfect.

    I have twists in my hair right now and I'll probably rock a twist out that will be get progressively more undefined as the days pass – which is just fine with me.

    I have no problem with frizz – and I like the woman's hair in the picture.

  • Sharmer says:

    Im currently transitioning, but I have to say I do like the more shiny, defined look.I've always liked shiny hair and I'm just not a fan of fros or how they look on me.

  • CrystalJ says:

    Not really…but what's funny is that I thought I would. To me it looks "too" done when I wear my hair out, which is why I rarely do twist-outs/braid-outs on my hair, I prefer banding which gives me just a hint definition. I like my hair big and in your face when I wear it out lol.

    Only time I like my hair to look "just so" is when I'm bunning it up

  • Balls Of Beauty says:

    i think some folks hide behind the natural texture n opt for "curl defining" which is how we end up spending so much money on products to do just that. when i did my blowout someone made the comment my hair looked dry too. lol, its definitely moisturized, just becuz its not shiney n glossy lookin doesnt mean its dry! i actually like the blowout becuz i get tired when my curls come out lookin too perfect. i have no problem with the frizz n etc ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Sherri says:

    Roddrea u have me crackin up!! Just last week I posted on Facebook that Freddy was my hair twin that day! Not because my hair naturally does that, but because I tried to make it do what it doesn't do and ended up looking like Freddy D, minus the part! Lesson learned. Keepin it simple from here on out. Plus Ive learned that the less I fuss in my hair, the more definition I have naturally. So wng and shake and keep it moving. Curls spring up all over the place!

  • CupOf*T says:

    LOL- I think it is funny that the commentor posted that she did not like her hair because it looked dry. Just because hair is in it's afro state does not mean that it's dry. Also when I look at the picture – I love her hair- it looks kind of artistic actually. I wear my hair mostly twisted up during the week (as a protective style), then I might take it out for a twist out, then I will let it fro up and it will look like the picture above. And no I don't use a blow dryer to get that look, I just gently run my fingers through my twistout and I can get the same look, still moist, with no heat. That is what I love about our natural hair, is that it can do so many things, have so many different looks, its versatile. Which for me was part of the point of me becoming a non-relaxed/natural woman.

  • Roddrea says:

    I like a defined curl, but my 4a/4b locks don't always want to cooperate. So more times than not, I rock my blowout, which I love. It brings out my inner Frederick Douglass and who doesn't like Freddy??

  • honeybrown1976 says:

    Do you!

    As for me, I prefer definition. I simply like the look of it.

  • Laleepop14 says:

    Well it all depends on my mood. I like to have a defined look, but dont mind when Im rocking my afro puffs if its not defined. Sometimes my puffs look better as a regular puff and not a twist out puff. But if a style like the picture mentioned, I think it fits her and her style( even though I dont know her) I think it is all about which natural person is rocking it… What may look good to others may not look good to some…

  • Anonymous says:

    Hair has to be to styled no matter type so my answer is i prefer to style my hair than walk out like i just sprang out of bed.

    Hair being defined is to do with the curl pattern you can have shiny and styled hair but not defined. Let's not confuse personal style with curl pattern and the health of the hair.

  • iri9109 says:

    well when my hair is well moisturized i have natural curl definition and a bit shine…im not curl obsessed, and i dont manipulate my curl pattern (i.e. braidouts, twistouts, coils etc) and i dont use gels or stylers/curl creams on the length of my hair (just the edges sometimes), i just use conditioner for moisture and then seal and air dry…i like the blowout look too sometimes…but i dont like to use heat on my hair, and i rarely use brushes and combs….my preference for ME is curly, defined, and shiny because its the easiest for ME just wash and go…while to get a undefined look i would have to manipulate my curls to behave in a way that they dont naturally…and im kinda lazy…so if my hair was naturally undefined or didnt have a curl pattern, i would probably do what was the easiest/least time consuming (and i doubt it would be spending hours shingling gel into my hair or doing braidouts/twistouts)…so most of the time my hair would probably be undefined (but still neat and clean) and i would be ok with that too…oh and even when i blow my hair out i keep it moisturized so it might look like a fro, but its not dry looking…its not super shiny either, but moisturized hair shouldnt look dry…my mom used to never do anything to her hair for weeks after she washed it and rock her fro and i told her she should moisturize it and she was like "i prefer the dry look" and im like yeah it looks dry because it IS dry…just because your hair is blown out or in a fro doesnt mean it should look parched.

  • KCAS says:

    Well, people should wear their hair in the way they feel comfortable and happy. As to me, I rather the defined version, even if it takes me 2 hours a week to get it. Maybe I've been brainwashed, but 5 years ago I could only like 2-3's hair type, mine is 3-4 and I really love it nowadays. Who knows? Maybe in the future I'll be able to appreciate all the hair shapes ;-).

    I also do believe shine hair looks more beautiful and presentable than a dry one.

  • Anonymous says:

    I think many in the natural hair community like undefined only when it is thick and long. It really depends on the length with some people. Personally, I prefer the very thick and fluffy natural hair look rather than "defined" curls.

  • The glam garage says:

    I prefer polished looks because its what I feel most comfortable in, but it doesn't mean that I think anything other than polished is unacceptable. I also don't feel that 'we' as a group have a right to say what is and isn't acceptable for an 'individual'. Its thinking like that, as a group, that deters other from the natural hair community. No one has a right to create a list of can's and cannot's for another person hair…just plain silly

  • Sherri says:

    My hair's 4a/4b so I have very random bouts of definition and I love it. I prefer soft hair to the crunchy hair i'd have to endure to experience "total definition". So I wng with conditioner only and what ever coils choose to define, so be it. Now on the other hand I do like my shine!! But I'm lucky enough to naturally have very shiny strands. If it took a lot of effort to achieve it, I'd probably do without.

  • Anonymous says:

    i feel terrible for saying this, but i thought the same thing when i saw that pic posted on another blog. i don't think hair has to be "defined" in order to be styled, but her hair doesn't really look styled to me. ๐Ÿ™ i have seen some really dope blow outs. but i pretty much always wear my hair twisted or braided because I don't use heat on it & try to style protectively.

  • Anonymous says:

    word to what b said… i work in corporate america and was promoted on a friday- wearing jeans and a huge blow out… Everyday my coworkers compliment my clean soft nicely styled hair… most often for the versitility. one girl said, I love your hair when it is the biggest poufy, and added that it was not in disrespect and she meant she just loves my big volumous hair hahahaha … so cute- she wanted me to know so bad that she was showing love – hands down people love me everything about me when i love me

  • Anonymous says:

    i love that style.i think i will try it out.i have 4a 4b hair and ever since i took down my braids my hair has bn dry!!i have tried to do my roller sets but it still comes out lookin dry.my hair clumps and the look i'm goin for never seems to come.to the point; i think that sometimes we try to make our hair do things it doesn't want to.what i have learned is to let my hair be.with no definition it's easier for me to maintain.after washin with no poo,drying,and applying my olive oil mix…my hair is good to go.it feels softer.twisting it at night and sprayin it with my mix lvs it feelin fresh the next morning.Lesson learned!!

  • Jay-Jay says:

    For me, I like my hair to be defined. I've been doing braidouts w/rods at the ends. I separate the braids carefully so it won't get too frizzy or loose it's definition. My hair wouldn't look right trying to have it undefined because I still have about 1.5-3.0 of relaxed ends in some areas. So if I do have the undefine look it'll be a frizzy afro with straight ends weighing it down…..LOL!!! I don't have anything against undefined looks. I LOVE NATURAL hair!!! However someone rocks their hair is their business.

  • b. says:

    I'll repeat here most of what I posted on the original blog:

    I'm rocking a defined twistout for the first time in forever, and to me it's another way to style my extremely coiled hair. Nothing more. I'm under no illusions that my hair should look like a different coil pattern to be "presentable". I work in higher education and I wear my hair up, down and out. Either way I receive compliments, it's always clean and soft, and it's HOW IT GROWS.

    Saying afro-textured hair "must" have some type of definition is like saying "you know, wearing long, straight hair is so hippy-dippy 1960s." That doesn't make sense either.

  • Anonymous says:

    Don't care how other people's hair looks, but for myself I prefer definition; either WNG curls defined with KCCC, or via a twist out. Without it, my hair is really big and gets bigger and bigger as the days progress (something I don't want at its current length). Doesn't look messy undefined; I just don't look good with a fro IMO.

  • Unknown says:

    I personally prefer a more polished look because I like shiny hair. However, I know that my reality is that my hair doesn't always have the luxurious shine to it. After about 3 days of a twist out, my hair starts to look dull and once I start adding more product to my twist out to preserve it, it gets even more dull. So, I think we all have to determine what's best for us and not someone else. I am honestly annoyed with people always judging someone else's hair, why do you care? They don't ask you to come over and do it for them so why does it bother people so much. jus sayin

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